We always talk about Americans changing the breed conformationally, b/c let’s face it — it’s what Americans do best is destroy a breed on it’s foundation…but what about color?  If Americans continually lust after the ‘American’ fascination with dilutes and color modifiers, aren’t they changing the breed too?  That is *not* predominantly what was bred traditionally, in fact well-marked B&W are still highly prized, not to mention the loud sabino that flows down through the draft heritage and well-sought after…

Completely random thought…

– On an odd side note, as I ponder this new one…we all know, color should never come first and with many that breed color that is evidently VERY true as opposed to others.  My first girl, Sorcha, ended up with the Silver gene.  At the time, and still lust after myself, all I wanted was a Black Blagdon.  I could care less 6 years ago if she had anything else or this random ‘carousel’ horse color when I came across her which reminded me of childhood posters splashed against my wall.  All I knew and cared about is that she looked heavy and properly proportioned like I had seen that first year in Watson’s fields and at Appleby, what I was after AND **she carried homozygous BLACK**.  I got a real good lesson from the Gypsies there on conformation when I decided I was gonna sell my beloved car, thank goodness, **before** I even started looking at horses here.  I didn’t even buy her for the silver, but that she looked interesting and could produce a black based foal even though she wasn’t ‘black’ to me. I knew who her father was and that he was ridiculously heavy himself and not overly imported here (like the main studs that were here or being multiple embryo bred here).  It was funny years later when color went really bat-house crazy in breeders here when I think back that my only question was ‘yeah, I don’t care about the other thing, but she can only produce black right?’.…

And I still am obsessed with a heavy Proper Black Blagdon to this day.… lol.  You should have seen the mare I wanted to sneak away from good ‘ol Robbie…<snickers> dappled and everything…that mare set my mark. Her and the original one by the riverside…in fact, Tom’s Mooncrest daughter reminds me BIG TIME of that mare.  She was either fading black or Bay, but can’t remember off the top of my head right now lol.

Ok look — this is not that hard a thing people and for lack of REALLY getting in to details:
The term ‘vanner’ as referring to a cob-type horse of coloured nature OR solids/blagdon owned and bred by Gypsies has been around a LONG time…

Here comes the big BUT:
HOWEVER — the Gypsies that heavily bred these horses DO NOT REFER to their PROPERLY bred (or ‘selectively bred’ if you will) equines as ‘vanners’. The ‘vanners’ are *YES* indeed those that are the ‘cart’ horses and are the lower grade work horses they use.  They would appear to be more like a draft and heavy harness horse.  They would most CERTAINLY not be of a ‘Proper Cob’ type and ***NOT*** their prize horse…this is directly out of the mouths of the breeders themselves and plenty a Gypsy overseas if you just ask them directly and friendly and not with any ulterior motive. Gypsies are much smarter than all too many ‘all-knowing’ and entitled Americans discredit them as.

AGAIN, HOWEVER:
Because of the American market and the propaganda campaign of DT, they will use the term to those that they need to use the term with in order to sell a horse.  When you are in the UK, though, to call their Proper Cobs a ‘vanner’ is an insult of certain degrees and some breeders let it roll off easier than others (those that sell more heavily to the US for instance, will just ignore it and judge/sum up the person for the term they use).

NOW:
Whether you want to call them a vanner, tinker, cob, whatnot — it does NOT matter in the end. The true point is — THERE ARE in fact particularly bred equines of a ‘COB’ body style (i.e NOT horse, NOT draft, NOT long in the back and NOT pony) that are different than those within the breed that are not particularly ‘selectively’ bred.  They can be of ANY name called *and* are even cross registered as different names — so there goes the whole stupid name thing out the window as indicative of ANYTHING superior.

As long as the day is, they are of COB body styles, have particular conformational investment and until Americans accept that, they will continue to misbreed the bone structure and selected ‘type’ that makes up our beloved breed.

This name crap gets O.L.D.  Get over it. Then we can start focusing on the bottom line point that there ARE major differences within the breed that need to be discussed and calling them by any particular name or registering them in any particular place does not alter the fact of what they are as they stand in front of you.

Geez louise people.

And a comment back additionally I added later.…
Thanks xxxx…even more detail and I totally know it as truth Love ya! Your Cob definition description is the Proper definition of a selectively bred Gypsy. Cob is a body style, but a ‘Proper Cob’ means something particular. A vanner could be used to describe more than just a Gypsy and looks much lankier and more akin to a drum (for instance) than a Proper ‘tight’ Cob of the rounded apple butt, short back, big flat bone, stout nature, large chest you can drive a bus through — basically a brick sh*t-house if you will.

Make no mistake though, a Proper Heavy Cob of the original style particularly bred, COULD pull a wagon no problem. It’s only the newer generation that has a fondness for the under 14 hands (and sometimes even under 13 yet still proper bred, but that is a matter of taste and strays from the ‘multi-function’ of the breed).

No matter how you tress up/dress up/dress down a Gypsy, it still is what it is 6 days a week and twice on Sunday down at the conformational and structural level. And if they have hair, they WILL grow it whether you want it there or not…it does not ‘magically’ appear at a certain age, nor do they ‘magically’ grow in to their conformation at that random fabled age either.

I have a problem with that (and trust me, I sold my car to buy my first one, so I am no where near rich myself)…but if you can’t afford the prices of a horse…**it doesn’t mean it’s unfairly priced**. That’s bass-ackwards. … That’s like saying a dressage trained Friesian is over priced b/c we don’t have the money to afford it and that’s not fair. There is no good reason this breed should be equal to a grade QH in pricing…this simply is NOT the breed for a person that can’t invest in the cost to own (and they should be right around 8k — 12k for untrained Gypsies based on breeding and conformation and move up from there for genetic traits and training). It’s the same with Andalusians & Friesians…why would you think it any different or unfair just because we can’t afford it? Small town people then CANNOT own these horses, that’s just the way it goes with ANY high priced breed, even the cheapy ones within…Would you ever complain and say it’s unfair that a Thoroughbred racehorse from blooded lineage is overpriced? The horses are worth what they are, regardless of whether it is unfair just because we can or can’t afford them.…and then you have to factor in the CARE that goes in to these guys — that takes MONEY money money on top of it all. Sometimes they can be left alone in the pasture, most times they cannot — it’s extra grooming, time, money, supplies, products, care, proper facility/board/shelter.…the list goes on.  If you can barely afford the pricing, how the heck are you going to afford the care??

I am NOT one of those that complains or whines about ‘oh I put so much in to the horse a couple of years ago’ — I’m sorry, that’s your fault and the overinflated prices that were insane a couple of years back…EVERYTHING levels out. Hell, I’d sell my girls for about these prices if the home is right and not give a flying fig what I’ve ‘invested’ in a horse. But to think the prices are not appropriate at 8k-12k just because it is unaffordable to ‘small town people’ is ridiculous. If you can’t afford the horse as it has settled in to it’s appropriate range (just as the other romantic breeds it is akin too) then it’s time to look at another breed or figure out a way to give something up or save up for it …it’s the same thing I did and I know others that have too. AND I bought high priced years ago to boot, but you won’t hear me complaining about that. It is what it is.

And don’t even get me started about quality and pricing being directly relational 90% of the time IN ALL breeds of the quality of the horse.  Wanna talk Quarter Horses? Shit…there’s a huge breed full of major issues right there, among any other breed.

Now the real fun begins…I met Terry from the White Hart online when booking this quaint little hotel pub.  We talked all the time before going throughout the winter before.  He talked about his da and his buddy Rob (Watson) and his horses and the breed.  I meticulously planned out this entire trip…we flew in to Manchester, dipped down to Chester real quick to replace a bracelet I had lost from my first trip from the Cathedral there…then drove up to Appleby.  Let me tell you, to return and drive some roads and visit places I had been before, not even realizing their significance was just positively *eerie*.  We got in to Appleby on Thurs. We get there in the afternoon and for those that don’t go, A.) Thursday is when a lot of horse breeders/dealers pull in and a lot of the serious deals are made for the cream of the crop before the crowd gets a hold of them — and then they are tucked/hidden away — and B.) in 2006 they were not as of yet really busing in tourists — grrrrr — and doing any of the crazy sh*t they are doing now to try to control the fair.  I regard it as the last great year and thank the stars we went that year as the last true heyday of a good fair.  The Gypsies I know agree that that was one of the last hurrahs…great weather too…we got sunburned on the bank.  It was no where near as overrun/crowded as now.  With that in mind, you can understand, I got a very good serious education about buying, selling, trading, customs, culture and immersed myself right in to the breed and it’s history/culture/mystery.

So now you can understand the build up…Here I was, walking among the beauties there and had never in my life seen so many identically gorgeous horses of one breed in one place.  It is so immensely different than anything you will see here.  I don’t even have enough words for the experience.  I walked the parkway next to the river where all the mares and babies used to line up and I am not kidding you…I cried. I could barely breathe.  I’m choked up just thinking of it.  It was like time stopped.  It was…for lack of better word: magical. Cliche, yeah, I know.  I was oblivious to all that was around me, like in a movie where the sound, the noise, the voices just muffled out and all I could see where the horses…the love, the personality, the calm in every single mare standing there just reached out and grabbed me. I’ve never felt what I felt emanating from those horses in any barn, horseshow or trail ride I’ve ever been on (remind me to tell you about THAT ride in france one day lol).  The pictures we have from that first and second year are simply stunning…we haven’t been able to capture that since.  I stood there with this one mare — nothing special, nothing stunningly conformed — but just holding her head as she dozed on my should and I rubbed her face, ears, under jaw and leaned in and whispered to her…she whispered back, I swear. It was at the end of those 20 minutes or so, that my life changed…

Ry finally got me to leave her…we walked up and down the river and my brain kicked in to a gear that gerbils in a wheel only dream of.  My first silly thought (about running away from it all here where my heart is) outloud was to Ryan: ‘What would you do if I ran away with a Gypsy boy?’…he paused, his answer in a moping voice ‘Call your parents…they’d help me bring you home’.  Minutes pass…analyzing, weighing the chess moves.…‘I think I might sell the Vette’.…dumbfounded silence ensues from Ryan.  He thought I was kidding. I would never ever utter those words, any one thought.  Over the course of Friday at the Faire, I ran all scenarios in my head and how this was going to work. I also ran the gamut of emotion from logical assesment, to excitement, to anticipation, to anxiety, to overwhelmed depression…it was a roller coaster…In that one decision, I just opened up a whole new world to myself full of a ridiculous amount of paths. On top of it all, I decided it must be a mare worthy of breeding if I am going to invest and do this, meaning I’m not getting my beloved boys. On Saturday at the fare, I viewed the mares with a whole new set of eyes.  I sharpened, honed in.  I listened intentenly to the Gypsies as they struck their deals, what they said, what they were arguing over, what was selling, what was creating crowds, what they took behind caravans to finish the deal when it was a serious push for a mare that *wasn’t* for sale, yet the new guy walked away with her.  I questioned, I asked, I didn’t push them though. They didn’t ask if I was American, they didn’t care at the time. I figured out what I liked, what I wanted to breed, what I respected, what I should be carrying on.  Ironically, I had met Robert Watson on the Hill and didn’t know who he was or that he was Terry’s friend.  I asked him about the mare he brought up from the field, grass stained (seriously) and all, with foal at her side, pulling out fairy braids in her hair.  I asked about selling her and importing her.  I found out later, she sold for 40 thousand pounds.  Later, I told Terry about the mare, and when he found out it was Robbie, we met and talked that night in the pub.  We arranged to go out to his fields to see his horses first hand and , those that he doesn’t bring to the faire. The first field we went to, just the three of us, was a field full of yearlings…about 30 of them perhaps…the pictures we came home with were amazing…they travelled like a flock of birds as one. I *called* them too me in a moment that was surreal, they came one by one following each other to me from about a football length away as I squatted in the field, hand outstretched and *calling* to them with patience and love. They came, they surrounded me, they rubbed their noses on me gently. Not a one of them was mean or aggressive or scared in any way.  I picked one or two I really liked…but I was worried about importing a baby, unproven. I told him about this heavy heavy black mare that I saw, so off we went to see his breeding mares. I was still waffling between the traditional black and white, which seems like it’s a must have, and my love of the solids/blagdons.  The next field we walked in where his favorite mares.  The heavy, and I do mean heavy, black mare  he was talking about foaled most likely a couple of hours before we were there.  Amazing. They still had remnants on them and the baby was testing his legs all around the munching mare. I took several analytical pictures of the mares I liked…Robbie was a wealth of info about them.  It was…just amazingly lucky to have any opportunity like this. Even more ironic, was on just a random note of either being hit on by the guys there or talking to them on purpose, I had met the Vines and the Coates (and actually I think Brian Cash too, but not sure). 

I couldn’t decide on a Cob and had to return first home to immediately put the Vette up for sale.  (The full impact of that didn’t hit until it left my driveway and I had a mental breakdown of hysterics about an hour after…all I remember is something about becoming the ‘crazy cat lady’ and ‘what am I doing???’ on the phone with my mom).  In the meantime, I began seriously researching what was already here in the United States.  I wanted something imported from there. I settled on Bartko…started stumbling across Silver Dapples and at the time knew nothing about the rarity or such within this breed.  I just knew it was, well different, and I like to be different and it reminded me of my dream horses of carousels and if I was going to have all that hair and that beautifully thick body, why not it be a carousel horse?  I looked at 2 I found that were really, not good quality in the body…I found an older mare I liked that I think was with Loretta, but that would mean importing.  I then found Celeste.  She had a filly she had Bartko bring over and was for sale.  Bingo. We struck up a deal, I gave her hold cash and we waited for my Vette to sell. 2 months later, Sorcha was on her way home to me. I’ve never looked back since. I’ve regretted getting involved a time or two with registries and politics here, but I’ve never regretted these horses.  There is not another breed under the sun like them.  I ponder if there ever will be.  There is not another culture under this sun so dear to me either. And to come full swing in horses, trips to the UK and my past with Gypsies (people) before…still just makes me go ‘wow, there is such a thing as fate’ and signs to the path you should be.  It brings me to tears to close this and say, I will never ever give up my love of these horses or their history, both good and bad (and we  do realize that within the romance, there is always bad things…there would not be a balance to life it twere not that way). And every time I am disheartened by things within the breed, each year I’m in England breathing in a deep breathe of the life-giving oxygen that is the Gypsy Cob.  Each year, I celebrate and remember why *I* love this breed, the thoughts *I* had that first year, the emotional roller coaster of the true romance that was that first year and nothing will ever change that or take it away, though we may never re-live that type of time again.

With Gypsy Love, thank you for reading my story.
Kat

I keep Sorcha’s mane always braided and now that she is in a much much drier stall and though I love the Equus Survivor, I need something that I can put on that will penetrate the braids when I don’t take them out daily.  And with her being cool and dry all the time now, her hair has become stiffer, so this is a goldmine of discovery/realization — and ESPECIALLY b/c the products are so much cheaper than what we get raped for with horse supply stores.  

I let you know what I try, though I can say for now I’m still using my MTG-SafeGuard-Furazone mixture for the backs of her knees (and it looks fantastic — pink soft skin, just a little flakeys, and her hair is soft soft soft).  When I give her a bath, I would use the Sulphur8 only on her feather, HiHo Silver from Rio Vista on her body/mane/tail.  After bath and when she is semi-dry (and also just a refresher during the week), I spray her body with Eqyss Premier Rehydrant Spray which smells great btw.  I spray her lightly all over, then curry comb it out/in.  Every other day or so, she gets the MTG mixture on the back of her front knees and then straight MTG down the rest of her feather…though I’m switching to a 1:1 mixture of the Shapley’s light oil and MTG and I use a spray bottle now to put it on.  Using a comb, I lift the feather hair to get underneath and at her coronet area as well, making sure to get down to the root where the new hair is growing out.  We are still growing out what was last shaved just before summer, and it grew super fast to start and is slowing down now…though I expect with the winter coming on, she’ll probably fill out rather well hair-wise in preperation. I lastly followed up and occasionally when she is try or if she is itchy — which has GREATLY slowed down now with regular use and now I’m just on maintenance with these things — spray down the crest of her mane and at the base of her tail the Sulphur8 anti-itch braid/dread releif.  GREAT STUFF! 

Really, when you put 2 and 2 together, you realize that the best place for products for our ‘hair dilemmas’ with these horses are *already* out there, tried and true, for those who have worn dreads and braids for *years*.  Again, always take care, test and use logic as horses do strange things like eat thier own hair and put things in their mouths (though I know a few humans that do the same too), so always consider the ingestibility factor when doing experimenting with these things as well.

So, for now with my new discovery, I’m going to try a natural Olive Oil based line to soften up her braids (and actually myself as I’m still recovering from super long extensions).  I have a cream for her that I am going to put in before I braid her up, braid her up, then I have the light spray that I’m using for meself, that I will also touch up her braids thereafter with.  The hard part is, with the wealth of hair she has, I go through so much product to actually saturate it ALL. lol.  The other ones I considered and will try at some point if these don’t work the way I want them to, are the Shea Butter and Carrot Oil based lines, and there is always the good ol’ Tea Tree Oil stuff.  I’ve used that on myself and really didn’t feall any difference though and it is more a natural anti-fungal and scalp cleanser and that direction of product versus a hair growth promoter and softener.  There is a world of things to try out there and each of our horses sometimes have such unique circumstances or symptoms.  Of course, you could just use motor oil like the Gypsy Rom do, but my thoughts are since we aren’t in the same pasture and environment and weather they are that do that on a regular basis, I’m going to find other routes (i.e. Mudd, bugs, grass, seasons, weather, sand, silt, etc…all these things are very different here than the grounds and area there and change circumstance). 

I’ll keep you posted on progress!   And will post links to some of the stuff I’ve been using.

Published in the January 2001 Issue of Anvil Magazine
Note: Images with captions are included at the end of this article.

‘Scratches’ is a term that refers to a skin problem on the lower legs of horses, caused by a fungus (and sometimes complicated by bacteria). The affected area becomes crusted, scabby and thickened, creating bumps and sometimes open sores. In severe cases the affected skin may ooze or the whole lower leg may swell, and the horse may become lame. This skin condition generally affects unpigmented skin (the areas of white leg markings) more readily than dark skin, since the unpigmented skin is not as tough-and more apt to chaff and scrape, opening the way for infection.

Scratches is a dermatitis, or inflammation of the skin, and the most common cause seems to be the fungus Sporotrichum schenki. Some horses seem to be more susceptible than others, just as some seem more vulnerable to other fungal infections such as ringworm and girth itch. The fungus lives in organic matter and enters through breaks in the skin when the horse walks through contaminated pastures or muddy, swampy areas.

The dermatitis that results is basically an inflammation of the deeper layers of the skin, sometimes involving the blood and lymph vessels. The most common site of inflammation is the pastern and fetlock area, often in the heel and back of the pastern where the foot bends. The involved skin becomes warmer, reddish and thickened. Then the skin surface becomes scabby and cracked, and if the condition is not treated it usually becomes badly cracked and oozing and spreads to include larger areas. Infection may also spread to the inner tissues and is sometimes complicated by bacterial infection as well. The thickened skin may come off, leaving bare spots covered with rough skin, or raw areas.

Traditional treatments for scratches were astringents like methylene blue, iodine mixed with glycerine, or ointments made with zinc oxide, nitrofurazone and steroids. But a better treatment, recommended by several veterinarians, is a mix of nitrofurazone, DMSO and thiabendazole (a cattle wormer that is also a good fungicide).

Thiabendazole cattle wormer paste is hard to find anymore, however (no longer being sold by most veterinarians or mail order livestock supplies because newer drugs have become more popular), so the horsemen can substitute any of the other benzimidazole dewormer drugs, found in horse paste wormers. Some of these are fenbendazole (marketed as Safe-Guard or Panacur), cambendazole, oxybendazole (marketed as Anthelcide EQ), oxfendizole (trade name Benzelmin) and mebendazole.

The area on the horse’s leg to be treated should first be scrubbed thoroughly to remove all dirt, then the mixture can be applied to the affected part of the leg. The mix should be one part nitrofurazone ointment (an antibiotic salve), one part dewormer paste containing thiabendazole or any of the other benizmidazoles, and one part DMSO. These ingredients can be obtained from a veterinarian.

The DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) helps reduce swelling and inflammation, and also helps the fungicide (the wormer paste’s active ingredient) penetrate the area deeply and thoroughly, taking the medication into the underlying tissues. The nitrofurazone combats any bacterial infection that may accompany the condition, and it helps buffer the DMSO so it won’t burn or irritate the tissues. The wormer paste kills the fungus.

The dewormer is the safest type of fungicide to use in conjunction with DMSO, according to our veterinarian, since it is an oral medication, safe to use internally in the body. Harsh or poisonous fungicides like iodine should never be used with DMSO because the DMSO carries the medication into the body and could cause serious problems.

The affected area should be well cleaned before applying the medication, so no dirt or outside contaminants are carried into the deeper tissues by the DMSO. Warm water is usually adequate for washing the leg, and a handy way to apply it is with a well-rinsed dishwashing detergent squeeze bottle, using your fingers to remove any dirt that is clinging to the leg from the ointment applied at the last doctoring session.

After the area is washed with warm water and is very clean, it should be dried it with a towel. The skin should not be wet when the mixture is applied. A mix can be made that will be enough for several doctorings, or it can be mixed up fresh each time-just the amount needed for one application. It can be easily stirred up with a finger, in a small wide-mouth jar. If a person doesn’t want skin contact with the DMSO, rubber gloves can be used to mix it and to apply it to the leg.

Mixed with nitrofurazone ointment, the DMSO doesn’t burn or irritate the skin or raw tissues like it can when used by itself, but a person may still ‘taste’ it if your skin comes into contact with it. If using bare fingers to mix or apply the medication, hands should be washed immediately afterward.

If applied daily, this mixture usually clears up scratches faster than traditional treatments. Bandaging, even in severe cases, is unnecessary, and can actually be detrimental to fast healing. The moisture should not be held in.

With this treatment a bad case of scratches can be cleared up even if the horse must be ridden and continues to get the area wet and dirty when traveling through mud or on a dusty trail. The leg should be washed and medicated each day after the ride. For a really resistant case that has bacterial complications, you can also give the horse oral sulfa tablets to help combat the bacterial infection, and dexamethasone to aid in reducing the swelling and inflammation, according to our veterinarian.

The best prevention for scratches is to keep white-legged horses out of muddy pastures. The fungus, once introduced into a pasture, remains there indefinitely, and horses are apt to pick it up when there are cracks or breaks in the skin. Pink skin chaps, cracks or nicks more easily than tougher, darker skin; that’s why the problem is most common in horses with white leg markings. If a horse must walk through mud or water often, the skin may tend to chap or crack more readily, and the fungus may be picked up from the mud. Scratches can also be a problem in winter pastures, and even dry summer pastures if the fungus exists in the dust and dirt and is introduced through breaks in the skin. But if caught early, a few treatments will clear scratches right up. A more serious, neglected case will take a bit longer.

http://www.anvilmag.com/farrier/101f5.htm